Photo: Roz Newmark

The Learning Environment Has Kept Me Whole: 

An Interview with Abby Fiat

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Abby Fiat, MFA, is a Professor Emerita of Modern Dance at the University of Utah where she taught and choreographed for 32 years. Both regionally and nationally, she has been a guest teacher for numerous colleges/universities, dance festivals, and professional companies and has conducted teacher workshops throughout the country. Ms. Fiat has also choreographed for the National University in Costa Rica, Ririe-Woodbury Dance Company, Repertory Dance Theatre, Brigham Young University, Dartmouth College, Tulane University, University of Central Oklahoma, Contemporary Danceworks, Utah State University, Maricopa Institute of the Arts, and in other university and community settings. Two of her works, Inclinations and Frieze, were performed at ACDFA Regional Gala concerts and Inclinations was performed at the National ACDFA Festival at the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C. Professor Fiat has been President of the Utah Dance Education Organization (UDEO), a movement specialist for the Utah Arts Council, and Vice-President of Regional Planning for the American College Dance Festival Association. In 1999, she received the University of Utah Distinguished Teaching Award and in 2005, the College of Fine Arts Students' Choice Teaching Award and the College of Fine Arts Faculty Excellence Award. In 2011, she was awarded the University of Utah Calvin S. and JeNeal N. Hatch Prize for Excellence in Teaching. She received the UDEO Lifetime Achievement Award in 2014.

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Introduction from Blog Director Jill Homan Randall: 

I graduated from the Department of Modern Dance at the University of Utah in 1997. Abby Fiat and Donna White were two of my incredible professors. Over the past 17 years as a performer, teacher, and arts administrator, I have grown to appreciate, understand, and admire the time I had with them, and what I learned from them, more and more. 

About two years ago, I developed the idea to sometime “circle back” and interview Abby. Knowing that her retirement was quickly approaching, I asked her if I could come for a day in April 2014 to interview her. Abby said yes, and also mentioned that Donna was also retiring from the department in Spring 2014. It was the perfect time to interview them both.

Why the interviews? It had several components. For Abby and Donna, I hoped it would be a moment to reflect and honor their work. Me flying in and interviewing them was a sign of respect and love for them. For me, I wanted to be with them one more time and reconnect in person after all of these years. Third, for other alumni of the Department of Modern Dance, I knew that there might be a few hundred people who would enjoy reading the interviews and remembering their time with Abby and Donna as well.

Here is the first interview transcribed and edited, with Abby Fiat. For general readers of the Life as a Modern Dance Blog, I offer you another artist profile sharing a life and career in dance. Abby’s wisdom and legacy comes alive here in words. You too can feel and embody these ideas. 

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April 14, 2014

JHR: Lifelong learning. How have you kept it fresh and inspired for yourself and for your students over the years?  

Lifelong learning is for all of us. Let me talk about it from the students’ vantage point first. The students are the ones that keep it current for me. We are so lucky to be in the profession we are in. It is the profession….it puts us all together – our mind, our body, our creative spirit. Wondering, celebrating, exploring, discovering, struggling….. This is hopefully the environment we create for our students. There is not even a choice of keeping it current….that’s what has to happen. The struggles and epiphanies that the students are having are some of the same struggles and epiphanies that we are having – whether it’s our research, their research, their choreography, our choreography, our teaching, their learning. They are learning and so are we and they’re teaching us what to do.  

JHR: “Transparent inspiration.” This is something I learned from you….sharing your curiosity and appetite with your students within your classes….

We underestimate the power of modeling this. When teachers get static, that can be a big pitfall. One of your strengths is your curiosity. 

Learning is risky business. You are going through a treacherous landscape with peaks and valleys inside of it. In some ways, the learning environment has kept me whole. It has allowed me to feel full in my life, and human. It has given me an opportunity to get a perspective in this building and outside this building (both in my personal and professional life). With my students, there is an affirmation – “This is where you are. This is where you are right now." And in that moment, that’s enough. They as people are enough.  It’s not that they aren’t going to keep risking and stretching and growing, because they are. 

My main objective in terms of my students and my own children has been….to give them the opportunity to find out who THEY are…what’s THEIR voice….what’s THEIR vision?  

JHR: What do you love most about college age students?

I do love this age, whether it’s the 18-year olds or the students coming back later in their lives.  

Regardless of the age, the thing I love is that they are in a position, at that moment, of finding themselves. They come from a situation that might have been very prescribed. There are some wonderings attached to this…that say, “Who am I? Where am I? Should I be here?” They are finding their appetite. “I want to be here…I choose to be here….I’m finding my place here. I want to jump into the stuff I know, and the stuff I don’t know.” Something you already know – like that favorite turn – can sometimes cage you. They are willing to go to that risky unknown place and come out whole on the other end.

JHR: You are there as the faithful guide! It is scary.

It is scary for all the right reasons. These are the metaphors for life – “Who am I? Am I enough? I’m trying to find myself. Am I going to come through this?” And in the process of doing it, you do find yourself. 

Anne Riordan’s comment was always….”We’re finding the dance.” And in finding the dance, we find ourselves.

JHR: Let’s talk about Anne…

Anne and I taught a lot of courses together and were dear friends – majors classes, non-majors classes, teaching methods.

She impacted my teaching philosophy deeply. She honored the struggle of learning. For her, she didn’t want to save the students from the struggle. Because if you take that away from the students, in some ways you rob their potential for their growth. Her philosophy was….“I trust you. I will be in there with you. I will be close, but it is yours. I cannot own that. You get to own that.” That was huge for me. I saw Anne do that in ways that transformed students.

It needs to be something — words that will allow the journey to continue. That’s the thing. How to say our truth in a way that can be heard. The truth needs to be said…with a directness about it.  Massaged or couched comments are tricky…they can get diluted and can be misinterpreted.

This is the teaching challenge….you see the potential, you see the issues….what’s the language we use with students?

It is slippery. It’s in the moment….it’s in the tone. 

That is the artistry of teaching.

It is the difference between giving a class and teaching a class.

What makes it alive….there is the treacherous territory of learning! It’s the timing inside of it.

That is the hardest thing inside all of this. With the freshmen, their appetite is so positive, so good. “I’m going to get this.” And they want to get it now. But when I’m giving a critique, this could be a 4-year crit or a lifetime crit. The crit could be, “What do you need and what don’t you need to hold onto?” Again, it’s those life metaphors. As I am about to retire….what do I hold onto and what do I let go of?

JHR: Let’s talk about technique. It is such a keystone of college programs. How has teaching technique changed over the years? How do you care for your teaching body – literally the wear and tear of demonstration, and also keeping it fresh? Who were your influences when you started and now as you are completing your teaching? 

In terms of care for myself…..our family is incredibly active. I still run and I love to ski. I figure-skated in my childhood. We as a family do activities together.

My mother loved sports and was an athlete. That has been a part of my genetic make-up. In some ways, that is my cross training – the playing that we do.

In terms of influences, my own technical background was very eclectic. Graham technique, Nikolais technique, Limón classes, and other dance techniques and forms back then. 

But a lot of the movement material in my technique classes dealt with what I was working on in my own creative research. The choreography keeps it current. Also things I had seen or workshops I had been to. There was something so fascinating about trying something on. Over the years, the movement material was coming from my own creative research and what was fascinating to me.

It is interesting in terms of the shift of technique – which deals with the currency of the profession at this time….an integrated fusion of technical training and somatics. This is in classes and work.  It provides a holistic preparation for the students. 

JHR: What keeps you believing in modern dance, especially in the US at this point in time?

I believe that dance really is the best preparation for life! It makes us whole and allows us to listen to ourselves, to listen to others, to talk to others, and to create community. It begins with ourselves – the vulnerability and the courage to find our own voice. Then it shifts to others. Dancers know how to create community since we have a sense of self. That is a hope for the world. I believe it so much. I see this transformation in our students as they progress through the program. 

JHR: Speaking of community…..what has made Salt Lake have such a rich dance culture – here at the university and almost every high school? 

It is a philosophy embedded in the celebration of bringing our whole self together. There is a simplicity and a complexity to that. 

I think of Elizabeth Hayes (long-time Chair of the department) as a pioneer in dance education. She had a wisdom and a razor sharp eye and always set the bar high for both dance artistry and dance education.

Abby Fiat: Mentors….let’s start talking about mentors. For so many dancers….sometimes we forget, who helped us get here….

The lineage is huge. Before I came to Utah…..

Betty Toman at Iowa State University. She impacted me tremendously as a performer, choreographer, and teacher. Betty Hayes and Betty Toman both went to the University of Wisconsin. They both were incredible pioneers in the profession. 

Since coming to Utah…..

Dee Winterton, Chris Ollerton, and Sara Lee Gibb were amazing mentors.

Betty Hayes, Joan Woodbury, Shirley Ririe, Loa Mangelson Clawson, Anne Riordan, and Phyllis Haskell Tims have all been extraordinary mentors to me.

Phyllis, as former Chair and Dean, is such an articulate and passionate advocate for dance and for all the arts. She brought such wisdom, grace, wit, and integrity to everything that she did.

Along with Betty and Phyllis as administrators, Scott Marsh, Donna White, and Steve Koester have also been amazing chairs of the department.

Scott was incredible, just amazing. He honored and celebrated the community of diverse thought and action.

Donna had the incredible ability to honor the legacy and history of the department and also had the courage to envision the future of the program. 

Steve (current Chair) has a vitality, humor, work ethic, artistic brilliance, and courageous vision and has taken the department to new horizons.

These Chairs helped create the foundation and structure of the program, and this has allowed us to discover who we are. Of course we find our own voices, but they’ve been the conduits to help us on our journey. I feel that with our faculty too. The younger faculty inspire me and help me stay current. They are the ones that make me say, “Oh that’s a possibility…I wouldn’t have dreamed of that.”

JHR: What has been your favorite non-studio class? 

The graduate teaching methods course is both classroom and studio. Scott (Marsh) and I co-taught the grad teaching methods class the whole time he was here. I always had taught all of my classes in the studio. He said, “Let’s do some of the theory part in the classroom. And then we will do the practicum and teaching in the studio.” 

Ah!! That made me so nervous…..because it gave me some information….

My words are wrapped around my movement. 

Are my words enough? 

Do I have the capacity to verbally offer the message without movement….because there is already a poetry in movement. If we are sitting down, are my words enough? 

It was a great challenge for me to do that.

There is something about the poetry of the body and the universal language of movement. How important it is to find the poetry in the words as well. What’s the texture of the word? What’s the richness of the word? What’s that thing inside of the word and how that translates then to the studio! Do the words become richer and more full-bodied because of practicing all of this?

We are practicing ALL of this!

We practice the body.

We practice FEEDBACK – how to offer the feedback in a way that goes deep in the heart but allows it to reside in the heart. 

How those words can make a difference.

This has been a great training ground for me.

What are the words I can use without relying on the movement of my body?

“That’s enough, in that moment….”

AF: Talking about one of my favorite courses to teach…..and what is it about that age of college……

I taught the fall semester freshman improvisation class for a number of years and before that, Anne and I also taught that class together. For a lot of the students, it was the first time they had ever taken an improv class. For some, it was the class they were most fearful of. It was that inner critic. All of those fears started to emerge for them in that course. “It’s my stuff…it’s my voice. I am doing pedestrian movement…is that enough?  It’s so hard to let go."

Oh, I loved teaching that class! In some ways, those were their burgeoning moments of “this is who I am.” 

JHR: Isn’t it amazing that this is how we spend our days? 

I always felt so honored. The student’s most vulnerable moment could become the student’s most empowering moment. That line is so tender…so mercurial in terms of when it shifts. The thing that the students taught me is courage. To be in that land of, “I don’t know. It’s not in my body yet. I don’t get it yet. I don’t know the answer. I am not sure what this dance is…..Should I start over?”  It’s all of those wonderings and those questionings. And then amazingly, it’s in that moment that they say, “Can you come and watch my rehearsal?” They let us in! They allow us to be a part of the journey. There’s a capacity for their permission to do that. It’s so raw. It’s not only what the teacher is offering; it’s what the student is opening for. It’s that duet between the two. It’s that deep moment of lifelong learning…for the student and for the teacher.

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Related posts:

An Article on Transformational Teaching

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